Honda's Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Samples

Honda Pan-European 1st generation (German design)

Honda's Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Samples

Postby David W » 25 Sep 2017, 00:29

A. The words “Aussie ST Models” are used in the title of this thread to be short for "Australian ST1100/A/P Models".

B. Australian ST1100/A/P models seem to differ from Pan European models in that they never have been built in more than one "version". (For example, there is no record of any separate, New Zealand version of an Australian model.)

C. The proposal here is to use all Australian ST1100/A/P models as examples of what Honda means by the term “model”. (If the reader's interest is only in Pans, he might want to check out the nearby thread called The Meaning of “Model” using Earlier, Main Pan Models.)

D. And we propose to define the term “model” in terms of frame numbers, which are Vehicle Identification Numbers (VINs) for all of these examples. North American ST1100s and post-1995 Pans also have VINs as their frame numbers, and that is another reason we use examples having VINs here. (But if our VIN based definition of model is found to be inconsistent with Honda's usage, we may have to look for an alternate definition.)

E. Some of our model examples we have discussed before, so we can start with those. (For details, please venture past the Red Line below, and read the Notes there.)

Example 0: The (1990) Australian ST1100L model, or what we plan to eventually call simply the (Australian) LM00 model:

The earliest Australian STs were 1990 Pans, or code year L ST1100s.
And they all have frame numbers/VINs of this same form:
JH2SC26U*LM00xxxx. For example, the earliest Australian ST built and sent to market has a frame number/VIN of
JH2SC26U*LM000002. The last code L or 1990 Australian ST1100 built has a VIN of
JH2SC26U*LM000156. Both of those sample STs came from the same ST1100 model, the 1990 Australian ST1100L L model. (And doing the math, that sample model contains 155 ST1100s.)

F. The Meaning of Model (for Australian ST1100s): Two Australian ST 1100s are from the same model if their VINs are the same, except for the last four digits of those VINs, and except for the ninth character, or Check Digit, of those two VINS.

The first eight characters of the frame number, plus the tenth through the thirteenth character, which are JH2SC26U*LM00 in Example 0 above, identify the “model”. Those characters can be used as a label for the model.
In summary, our first example of a “model” is the 1990 Australian (Standard) ST1100 L model, which we can also call the JH2SC26U*LM00 model, or simply the (Australian) LM00 model.

G. If the frame numbers of two Australian ST 1100s differ in their first eight characters, or in their tenth through thirteenth characters, then those two ST 1100s are from a different model, and those twelve characters can be used to identify the two models involved.
----------------------------------------------Red Line (beyond which are only details)-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Notes:
B. Versions of a model might be slight regional variations on each other. A Pan model can consist of up to ten versions of that Pan model. Or, the two versions of a model might be an early version and a later version of the model, as is the case of two models not discussed here, namely the two USA 1991 ST1100 models. A version of a model is generally the smallest grouping of bikes that we see Honda using. The second smallest grouping of bikes that Honda uses is the model. I have yet to see any Canadian or Australian ST model that was built in more than one version. So we plan to NOT be using the term version at all in this Australian thread.
C. The goal here is to define "model" so that it is consistent with Honda's usage of that term. I think we will find, before we are done here, that there are a total of five pre-1996, Australian ST “models”, and more than five post-1995 Australian models. (Their North American ST 1100 counterpart "models" can be discussed in a separate thread, as can Pan models that have VINs as their frame numbers.)
E. We are consistently using here an asterisk(*) as a placeholder for the Check Digit which is always found in the ninth position of any VIN; no actual VIN contains an asterisk in it. Unlike some code L Pans, Australian code L bikes were actually made in 1990, not in 1989. As I understand it, some Australian states assign a "model year" to an ST that may not be the same as the Honda model year assigned to that ST. So for our purposes here, it is preferred to use the ST's model year code instead of its Honda model year. The (1990) Australian ST1100 L model, used above as Example 0, has been discussed in ST1100 threads here called: L models Led the Launch of Line in most Lands and A Listing of the NUMBERS from the Launch of the Line.
F. The first seven characters, JH2SC26, of the VIN identify, among other things, the "Line" as being the Pan/ST1100 or ST1100/A/P Line. The eighth, character, the letter U, is only there in Australian VINs. The eleventh character, the letter M, simply identifies the Honda plant, but not the model. Only characters ten, twelve and thirteen (which are L 00 in this example) identify the specific model within that Pan/ST1100 Line. We will include the plant code M simply because it is in the middle of the other three characters that we will focus on; but we will downplay that M. And technically, the letter U does also contain model info to the extent that any Australian ST is from a different model than is any non-Australian Pan or ST; but the letter U will consistently be there in all examples of this thread, the goal of which is to sort out the different Australian models. So we will not focus on the U either.
G. Our first model example is of the Standard variety, meaning it is both non-ABS, and also non-Police. All Australian ST models which are identified by characters of the form
JH2SC26U**M*0 are Standard variety models. (Example 1 is identified by the characters JH2SC26U*LM00 and is a standard variety model. We plan to have several more standard Australian models as examples here. In brief, we can call those other models the LM00, the PM30, the SM50 ... Australian models. Those Aussie standard models collectively form what Honda calls a "model series". For more on the three varieties of Pan/ST1100, see the nearby thread called Top-down Talking: The Time is Ripe for Talk of “Type”.)
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Re: The Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST1100 Models as Sam

Postby alans1100 » 25 Sep 2017, 11:42

David W wrote:G. If the frame numbers of two Australian ST 1100s differ in their first eight characters, or in their tenth through thirteenth characters, then those two ST 1100s are from a different model, and those twelve characters can be used to identify the two models involved.


First 7 characters of the VIN should be the same on all of our ST1100's

1st is country of origin - J for Japan
2nd is the Manufacturer - H for Honda
3rd is type of vehicle or manufacturing division - 2 equals motorcycle or motorcycle division
4th up to and including 7th digit: the meanings change with the manufacturer, and describe information such as the model, body type - SC26 in our case which means ST 1100 L-V / AN-V Pan European
8th is the country or market it will be sold in - U for Australia in my case
9th is a check digit - 4 in my case.
10th is the year of manufacture - X for 1999 in my case.
11th is the plant of manufacture - M for Hamamatsu Factory
12th up to and including the 17th digit: Sequence production number. These numbers identify the specific vehicle itself – kind of like a serial number

based on info from here http://carsrecoveryla.com/read-a-vin/

and SC26 code from here http://comital-int.com/osp/index.php?op ... &Itemid=50

I'm guessing that 12th and 13th characters depict the option codes - in my case 8 and 5 which could mean the difference between an ST1100 and a ST1100A

My compliance plate for a 1999 ST1100A or X - the first 8 characters are identical to your 1990 or L example. Even the compliance plate reads ST1100 not ST1100A.

VIN Plate.JPG
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Re: The Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Samples

Postby David W » 25 Sep 2017, 22:26

alans1100 wrote:... First 7 characters of the VIN should be the same on all of our ST1100's [globally]....
Agreed.
alans1100 wrote:... 8th is the country or market it will be sold in - U for Australia in my case....
I agree and would add that the 8th is a U for any Australian ST1100/A/P.
Since we are looking at only Australian STs in this thread, we will never see here any difference in the first eight characters of the VINs we look at here.
Alan has rightfully noted that we can therefore simplify one of the definitions we gave in our first post above:

Old version:
David W wrote:G. If the frame numbers of two Australian ST 1100s differ in their first eight characters, or in their tenth through thirteenth characters, then those two ST 1100s are from a different model, and those twelve characters can be used to identify the two models involved.

New Simplified version:
G. If the frame numbers of two Australian ST 1100s differ in their tenth through thirteenth characters, then those two ST 1100s are from a different model, and those four characters can be used to identify the two models involved.

Even that "new simplified" version could be simplified further by noting that we will never see a difference in the eleventh character of any Pan/ST1100 VIN. But rather than simplify in that way, we can just downplay that eleventh character, which is always the letter M, standing for Hamamatsu, as Alan noted above. (Fortunately, M is not a year code for any Australian ST; having M also as a year code tends to confuse those in other lands.)

I need to also address Alan's words about the ending, six-digit Serial Number of a VIN. In brief, Honda uses only the last four digits for that purpose on any Pan/ST1100. They use the first two digits of that "Serial Number" to code in other
info. In Alan's case, the 8 verifies the vintage is 1999, and the 5 indicates his is of the ABS variety (which he calls the ABS option, using car talk, IMO).

Technical Talk:
In the case of other ST1100 and Pan VINs, the eighth character is not just an indicator of the importing region or country. It also is used by Honda to code in whether the bike is of the ABS variety, of the Police variety, or of neither of those varieties. That coding tends to make the VIN-based definition of the term model more complex than it is for Australian ST1100s. Believe it or not, we are consistently starting with the simplest case; for an even simpler definition of model, see the nearby thread called The Meaning of “Model” using Earlier, Main Pan Models. But that thread does not even cover all Pans, much less Australian ST1100s.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Next time: Should we continue with the (1993) Australian SM30 standard ST1100 model and other standard models, or should we take up the ABS models such as Alan's?
(Alan's is of a model which I would refer to as the Australian XM85 model, which is also known to Honda as the 1999 Australian ST1100AX model.)
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Re: The Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Samples

Postby alans1100 » 26 Sep 2017, 05:02

David W wrote:I need to also address Alan's words about the ending, six-digit Serial Number of a VIN. In brief, Honda uses only the last four digits for that purpose on any Pan/ST1100. They use the first two digits of that "Serial Number" to code in other info. In Alan's case, the 8 verifies the vintage is 1999, and the [b]5[/b] indicates his is of the ABS variety (which he calls the ABS option, using car talk, IMO).


alans1100 wrote:12th up to and including the 17th digit: Sequence production number. These numbers identify the specific vehicle itself – kind of like a serial number


I think you missed my last statement. -
alans1100 wrote:I'm guessing that 12th and 13th characters depict the option codes - in my case 8 and 5 which could mean the difference between an ST1100 and a ST1100A


As with characters 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 (usually vehicle description) the ones at 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 and 17 ( usually a serial number of some type) can be used by different manufacturers to mean different things and giving each vehicle a unique number
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Honda's Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Samples

Postby David W » 26 Sep 2017, 22:11

Alan and all,

I think we have covered a VIN's positions 1 through 9 enough, at least for the purpose of this Australian thread.

Next is what I call the model year code in position 10. It is an L in Example 1 and an X for Alan's ST.
My reference page for VINs is the Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_i ... ion_number . (Yes, is seems Americanized, but VINs were invented in the USA.)
Under the heading "Model year encoding" there, the model year code indicates the "model year".
Here in this ST1100 Forum, we have found over the years that "model year" is not enough of a description for it; we have had to extend the description of it to read "Honda model year" when discussing Pans or STs. Need details?
alans1100 wrote:... 10th is the year of manufacture - X for 1999 in my case....
SC26 code from here http://comital-int.com/osp/index.php?op ... &Itemid=50 ....
Let's use that same site but look at a different page there:
http://comital-int.com/osp/index.php?op ... &Itemid=50
There, we find the statement "The year of manufacture is not necessarily the model year." That is indeed almost always true in the Northern Hemisphere (using "Honda model year" to replace "model year" in that statement).
But on the Australian Continent, we have fairly well established in this Forum that the year code indicates also the year of manufacture, or the build year. So in this thread, we can indeed say "10th is the year of manufacture".
I have found that the VIN's twelfth position also is an indicator of, at least, the relative year of the bike. (It is a 0 or zero in Example 0 and an 8 in Alan's case.)
What does the year, or relative year, have to do with this thread about Honda's meaning of the term model? Whenever the "year" changes, Honda says that the model changes as well, regardless of even total lack of change in the ST's parts list.
At the risk of belaboring all that, let's illustrate it by adding:

Example 3: The (1993) Australian ST1100P model, or what we plan to eventually call simply the (Australian) PM30 model:

This is the second earliest Australian ST model.
All STs in this model have frame numbers/VINs of this same form:
JH2SC26U*PM30xxxx. For example, the first ST1100 built for this model has a frame number or VIN of
JH2SC26U*PM300001. The last code P or 1993 Australian ST1100 built has a VIN of
JH2SC26U*PM300071. Both of those sample STs came from the same ST1100 model, the 1993 Australian ST1100P P model. (And doing the math, that sample model contains 71 ST1100s.)

The 10th position is the letter P, indicating that both the build year and the Honda model year are 1993.
The 12th position is the digit 3, which is three more than the digit 0 in Example 0, indicating that the year is three more than 1990, or again, it is 1993. (Thus, I think the 8 in Alan's case indicates that his bike is from the eighth or so ABS model built globally. His was built 8 or so years after the ABS variety was introduced in 1992.)
The thirteenth digit is again a 0 or zero, as it was in Example 0. That says to me that both Examples are of standard models. (If Example 2 had somehow been an ABS model, we would expect a 5 for its 13th. Alan's ABSD example has a 5 for the 13th.)

I still have not taken the six-digit Serial Number or Sequence Number portion completely apart, but I am again out of time. Next time, I will refer again to that same Wikipedia page and focus on the "Components" section near the top of the page. There, the "Sequential number" portion, or positions 12 through 17, for relatively low-volume production, ends as always with a serial or sequence number to identify the specific bike within the model; but it also contains a "Manufacturer identifier" right before the ending four digits. I think Honda used that form when giving VINs to their ST1100s.
Reference page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_i ... ion_number
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The Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST1100 Models as Samples

Postby David W » 29 Sep 2017, 19:19

alans1100 wrote:... 10th is the year of manufacture - X for 1999 in my case. ...
based on info from here http://carsrecoveryla.com/read-a-vin/ ...
I do not trust that web site for anything more than a simplified overview of how to read a VIN.

That site is based in the USA, yet we riders have yet to find any USA ST1100/A/P whose tenth digit is the year of manufacture. (The 10th always indicates one year greater than the build year, except for one Canadian model.)

The 10th is the year of manufacture only for Australian STs. (One good thing about that site is that they point us to the Wikipedia when details are needed.)
---------------------------------------------------The 12th Position---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Moving on now to a VIN's positions 12 and 13.
David W wrote:... My reference page for VINs is the Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_i ... ion_number . (Yes, is seems Americanized, but VINs were invented in the USA.)
... I have found that the VIN's twelfth position also is an indicator of, at least, the relative year of the bike. (It is a 0 or zero in Example 0 and an 8 in Alan's case.)
... The 12th position is the digit 3, which is three more than the digit 0 in Example 0, indicating that the year is three more than 1990, or again, it is 1993. (Thus, I think the 8 in Alan's case indicates that his bike is from the eighth or so ABS model built globally. His was built 8 or so years after the ABS variety was introduced in 1992.)
The thirteenth digit is again a 0 or zero, as it was in Example 0. That says to me that both Examples are of standard models. (If Example 3 had somehow been an ABS model, we would expect a 5 for its 13th. Alan's ABS example has a 5 for the 13th.)
... refer again to that same Wikipedia page and focus on the "Components" section near the top of the page. There, the "Sequential number" portion, or positions 12 through 17, for relatively low-volume production, ends as always with a serial or sequence number to identify the specific bike within the model; but it also contains a "Manufacturer identifier" right before the ending four digits. I think Honda used that form when giving VINs to their ST1100s.
Reference page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_i ... ion_number
I think the 12th is used by Honda to indicate the relative year of the model, relative to either the start of ST production, or relative to the start of the series (ABS, Police or standard) to which the model belongs in. Further examples are needed to check that idea.
----------------------------------------------------------------The 13th Position------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
alans1100 wrote:
David W wrote:I need to also address Alan's words about the ending, six-digit Serial Number of a VIN. In brief, Honda uses only the last four digits for that purpose on any Pan/ST1100. They use the first two digits of that "Serial Number" to code in other info. In Alan's case, the 8 verifies the vintage is 1999, and the 5 indicates his is of the ABS variety (which he calls the ABS option, using car talk, IMO).
... I think you missed my last statement. - I'm guessing that 12th and 13th characters depict the option codes - in my case 8 and 5 which could mean the difference between an ST1100 and a ST1100A....
I think the 13th indicates whether the ST is ABS or Police or standard variety, for these Australian STs. The codes are 0=standard, 5=ABS and 8=Police. We should look soon at the 1995 models, the code S models, to tentatively establish that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------Looking Ahead------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But we won't be done with any of this until we get to 1999, or code X. Isn't that when Honda produced a special 50th Anniversary model; that would mean two ABS models for code X 1999. I anticipate that Honda's Australian VIN system was challenged by that extra model. For now, the short-term plan is:

Example 5: The (1995) Australian standard ST1100S, or the SM50 model for short.
Example 15: The (1995) Australian ABS ST1100AS, or the SM55 model for short.
Example 25: The (1995) Australian Police ST1100PS, or the SM58 model for short.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Red Line, beyond which are merely Details-----------------------------------------------------
More talk of a VIN's position 12, which is often called the first digit of the six-digit Serial Number. I found the following quotation in an American Honda book: "From 1959 through 1963, the year of manufacture was often indicated in the serial number. Examples as follows:
CB92-9xxxxx = 1959
CB92-0xxxxx = 1960 ....
" The practice of indicating the relative year in position 12 is not at all limited to Australian ST1100s. I think the practice of putting the (coded) relative year as the first digit of the Serial Number was used on all STs and Pans - even on those early Pans that do not have VINs.
(1959 was the first year for Honda Motors in the USA.)
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Re: Honda's Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Sam

Postby alans1100 » 15 Feb 2018, 11:38

Maybe this should go here.

We have just had a new member join up with what at first appeared to be an ST1100W or 98. Upon further discussion about the photo supplied I noticed what appeared to be the ABS/TCS switches next to the LH fairing pocket and with the twin pot callipers looked like it could have been an 1100AS (1995); the first year that we got the ABS bike.

Another person noticed the voltmeter where the headlight adjustment is usually placed so we possibly may have a police 1100 or a previous owner installed the voltmeter. The owner came forward with the ST1100PT from under the seat with 6/98 as month/year on the compliance plate. I asked about the 10th digit of the VIN and whether it was a "T" or as I suspect a "W" and still waiting for a response. What puzzled the owner was that the switches I mentioned had Hazard on one and 6 on the other which the police bike has. The bike was also resprayed red as the 98 ST1100 in Australia was that year.
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Re: Honda's Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Sam

Postby David W » 17 Feb 2018, 02:59

Alan and all, it sounds like an ABS model to me, either an S or a T model ('95 or '96). Parts for police models might be common enough so that the switch gear was changed. (Can that be done without changing the wire harness?)

Another thing to look at would be the month of manufacture. Also, the 13th character of the VIN of an Aussie ST tells whether the bike is ABS (digit 5) or Police (digit 8). (The bike might be an ambitious attempt to add ABS to 1996 Police T model.)

1996 seems to be the Honda model year (year code T); the Australian government's model year might well be 1998.
He should use the Honda year when ordering parts!
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Re: Honda's Meaning of “Model” using Aussie ST Models as Sam

Postby alans1100 » 17 Feb 2018, 09:23

No, it's an 1100PT as it's on the frame along with the police colour code.

The police switch block has been replaced with the standard one and the speedo still has 2 k/h increments.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog/honda ... /cowl-stay show two switches (items 9 and 11) where the ABS has the ABS and TCS switches.

A few years ago I was thought of adding the hazard (item 6) and Item 9 for the driving lights along with item 19 to the RH side.
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