European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model Pan

Honda Pan-European 1st generation (German design)

Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby alans1100 » 27 Oct 2013, 04:55

Dave W II wrote:
oslin2013 wrote:
(We were never able to figure out what a PMA number is, much less connect it to build year. Maybe the P stands for Plate, as in R Plate.)


I'm wondering if this PMA number is something similar to our Approval Number (AN) which is also on our compliance plates.

Any vehicles sold/made over here must meet Australian Design Rules (ADRs). I'll use my bike as an example.

For it to be sold over Honda has to make sure it complies with the standards we have in place at the time. The model type was approved in 1990 and given a number which relates to a certificate (or similar) with all the details about the type of bike. The AN is on the compliance plate and for the most part can be ignored by the owners.

So we end up with is an ST1100 all approved in 1990 so the model can be sold. Now, e.g. Honda doesn't want to go through the process making a new model every year so it makes the same model over a few years which is where the year code come in. In Australia that means an ST1100 built in 2002 is the same as the one built in 1990 and the year codes reflect this. So every ST1100 sold in Australia must at least meet the ADR standards when the model was first type approved in 1990.

Honda as with most companies do make minor changes as the years roll by but that doesn't make it a new model. The ABS exceeds the 1990 approval year standards so for ADR purposes it's not a new model just an option. We didn't get the ST1100A until 1995, mine is 1999 and type approved in 1990 on the compliance plate even though I have ABS/CBS/TCS on mine.

It might be a bit rough around the edges but that's fairly close to how it's supposed to work
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Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby David W » 27 Oct 2013, 20:53

Dave W II wrote:... We were never able to figure out what a PMA number is, much less connect it to build year. Maybe the P stands for Plate, as in R Plate....
alans1100 wrote:
I'm wondering if this PMA number is something similar to our Approval Number (AN) which is also on our compliance plates.

... The AN is on the compliance plate and for the most part can be ignored by the owners....

I think we previously made it to the point where we found the A in PMA stands for Authorization, which is similar to Approval. But as soon as I saw that Keith's "xxxx/98" could not possibly indicate a "build year" of 1998, I concluded that the build year is never to be found, as such, on a UK Pan. A PMA does not indicate build year. And in your case also, Alan, the Approval year of 1990 cannot be the build year.

But what about on the European Continent?
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And I've found that most liter size Pans, when warmed up, cook well.
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Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby alans1100 » 28 Oct 2013, 02:41

Dave W II wrote: And in your case also, Alan, the Approval year of 1990 cannot be the build year.



I never said 1990 was year of build but year of approval, however, it's possible to have a car/bike approved early in the year and then made/sold near the end of the year. Any company that makes cars/bikes etc will want to have it in the market place ASAP after approval has been given.
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Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby flookyk1100 » 28 Oct 2013, 09:21

My appologies for confusing you Dave, my bike was a 1999 (V reg) not a 1998 so the V5 Reg date was Oct 1999 not Oct 1998, got a bit mixed up with the 1998 Rangie I have over the year. Sorry. :oops:
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Getting access to ones steering head to look for build info.

Postby David W » 05 Nov 2013, 03:58

I see two ways to get close enough to ones steering head to check whether the plate or sticker there contains any build info.

Those two ways are illustrated on a red, 1995 USA ST1100ALS, or S model, that I have done most of my riding on.

In the Down Under method, one gets down by the front wheel and peers up at the steering head; see the first photo below.
DSC010392.jpg
DSC010392.jpg (99.32 KiB) Viewed 12736 times
Moving up and in closer, we can see the VIN on the right, and also a small, white rectangle in the upper left fairly well; see the next photo below.
DSC01097.jpg
DSC01097.jpg (52.39 KiB) Viewed 12596 times
I found that little, white rectangle a bit difficult to photograph; below is my best shot of it. It shows finally a build month/year of 10/94, or October 1994, for this 1995 (or code S) model.
DSC01113.jpg
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Once again,
Dave W II wrote:No photos are needed, nor is any info beyond the two items mentioned.

The other method, the Up Over method, is in the next post below.
'Tis not its looks, but how it cooks.
And I've found that most liter size Pans, when warmed up, cook well.
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Get access to steering head; look for build info.(continued)

Postby David W » 07 Nov 2013, 03:39

I see two ways to get close enough to ones steering head to check whether the plate or sticker there contains any build info.

Those two ways are illustrated on a red, 1995 USA ST1100ALS, or S model, that I have done most of my riding on. The Down Under method was discussed in the post just above.

In the Up Over method, one looks down from the top. Because I know the build info is on the right-hand side, I stand on the ST's right side and turn the bar counterclockwise. Then I peer down into the dark shadow shown in the first photo below.
DSC00997.jpg
DSC00997.jpg (96.68 KiB) Viewed 12698 times
Peering down at the steering head, we can see the identification sticker fairly well; see the next photo below.
DSC01011.jpg
DSC01011.jpg (66.27 KiB) Viewed 12698 times
And I did not find it very hard to move down and get a bit closer STill; see the photo below. Although it is upside down, the month/year of manufacture is in the white rectangle and is clearly 10/94, or October 1994, for this 1995 (or code S) model.
DSC01003.jpg
DSC01003.jpg (83.04 KiB) Viewed 12698 times
Once again,
Dave W II wrote:No photos are needed, nor is any info beyond the two items mentioned.
'Tis not its looks, but how it cooks.
And I've found that most liter size Pans, when warmed up, cook well.
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Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby alans1100 » 07 Nov 2013, 09:01

I Put my VIN plate up for Australian Reference. The month/year isn't in the easiest place to read from any angle by eye but the bike is 14 years old so when new it may have stood out more. All our tyre info is under the seat so that it's easier to see.

ADR approval number......number of the certificate (also contains details about the vehicle) that says it's approved and built our vehicle standards in force at time of manufacture.

Please note that the model is ST1100 on the compliance plate not 1100A.

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European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model Pan

Postby David W » 07 Nov 2013, 23:44

Alan, thanks especially for your post just above.

Europeans and all,

If a European Pan has the month/year of manufacture on it, that will probably be in small letters next to the rivet, as in Alan's photo above. (It is not likely to be in a small, white rectangle, as in my photos above.)

Since someone has already looked at a UK Pan's plate, we do not expect to find a build month on any UK Pan. So we are looking now for an owner of a code T or later (1996 or later) Pan who is on the Continent of Europe.
'Tis not its looks, but how it cooks.
And I've found that most liter size Pans, when warmed up, cook well.
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Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby Cammy ST11 » 08 Nov 2013, 00:34

Dave W II. If I get the chance I will look at mine tomorrow and try and upload a picture. I will also try and explain our registration process in relation to build dates and the conceived 'year' of the bike. FYI the bike is a 1100y non abs.
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Re: European, if you can, do a scan of your T or later model

Postby David W » 08 Nov 2013, 03:58

Once again,
Dave W II wrote:No photos are needed, nor is any info beyond the two items mentioned.
'Tis not its looks, but how it cooks.
And I've found that most liter size Pans, when warmed up, cook well.
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David W
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Model: ST1100M/P ST1100AR/S
Year: 1991/1993, 1994/1995
Colour: 2 reds; 2 are black.

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