Too fast to be seen?

For old times' sake, some educational info for everyone who needs more control over his/her bike.

Too fast to be seen?

Postby Gareth R » 05 Sep 2014, 10:30

See here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-29064891
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/a47_death_c ... _1_3523497

The turn across lane nightmare for all bikers; but too fast for the situation and driver not looking/ seeing to stand any chance of avoiding such an accident.

220ft 2.5secs @ 60mph
355ft 2.5secs @ 97mph
135ft further covered.

135ft @ 60mph = approx. 1.5secs. Car pulling out at 10mph = 15ft per second and the car was only approx. 14ft long......................

Whatever the facts, the family have lost a loved one.

G.

http://www.metric-conversions.org/ for our European cousins
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby cammy_moir » 05 Sep 2014, 12:46

Seen this earlier on FB. A sad loss no doubt. But - the rider was largely responsible for his own demise. Overtaking on the approach to a junction and continuing to accelerate into an area of danger. Maybe he did not have the benefit of advance training but that situation is a no brainer. (+ the excessive speed).
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby zebedeee » 05 Sep 2014, 21:42

very sad and disturbing to watch when you know what the outcome is.

can anybody answer a question I saw commented on on another forum about him overtaking on the centre cross hatching. From memory (and I dont wish to watch it again) the centre cross hatching was bound by a broken line. Can we enter that cross hatching in these circumstances or any circumstances? My view always was we could, but could not enter if bound by a solid line.
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby cammy_moir » 05 Sep 2014, 22:41

David. Yes you can enter what is reffered to as a 'ghost island' bounded by broken lines. Infact you can cross into the opposite carriageway to overtake if it is safe to do so unlike the solid double white lines.
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby zebedeee » 05 Sep 2014, 22:46

Thanks Cammy, was sure I had seen that in a bike mag as well.

On the other forum people were criticising him for overtaking at those points, which shows what some car drivers may consider wrong and dangerous without ever having ridden a bike.
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby mbrST1100 » 06 Sep 2014, 11:03

cammy_moir wrote:...but that situation is a no brainer. (+ the excessive speed).

I've to agree...
Its a known fact to motorcyclists that car drivers only look out for a danger to themselves inside their metal box, thus only paying attention to something like a car or larger...
An approaching motorcycle, can be a large, illuminated rig, already slowed down below 6mph and at a distance of less then 30ft, is simply not processed by their brains...

Intersections are always a "confusing traffic situation", you've folks ahead, who's actions cannot be predicted... not being seen at all is among that...
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby David W » 11 Oct 2014, 22:25

No one seems to have addressed the question of whether or not the car driver was signaling his fatal right turn (which of course, would be a left turn outside the UK). I cannot see one in the brief video above, but that could be because it is too brief. (Do we have a more complete video available?)

Apparently, David overtook a car going downhill towards the fatal junction/intersection. Do you think he was so unfamiliar with the road that he was not aware of that junction/intersection? (He was only some 9 1/2 miles outside of Norwich, his home town, right?)

Both vehicles were black, with headlights only on the bike. Mere coincidence? But David probably was wearing the right colour helmet, namely orange.

Just below is my estimate of David's intended path, riding from left to right. Note the town of Honingham near the middle, which marks the site of the collision. (To zoom in, click on More options; then look for zoom symbols in the map's lower right. Or move your cursor onto the map, and turn the wheel on your plastic mouse.)

Below is my guess for the intended path of the car, going from lower right to upper left, with a fatal right turn on Wood Lane near Honingham. (To zoom out, click on More options; then look for zoom symbols in map's lower right.)
(I cannot get a topological map to verify there is a hill to the left that junction at Wood Lane.)
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby alans1100 » 12 Oct 2014, 00:29

If this happened in South Australia then the actions of both parties would be taken into account as in a case like this no one is 100 per cent at fault. More likely that the actions of the rider would be seen as the primary cause of the incident. The driver would more likely be charged with failure to give way and driving without due care and just fined. That's only a guess based on some of the talk back radio programs I've heard over the years.
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby mbrST1100 » 12 Oct 2014, 14:36

David W wrote:No one seems to have addressed the question of whether or not the car driver was signaling his fatal right turn...

The road layout makes it very clear that you approaching an intersection there, so besides the training in driving school, common sense alone tells one to cut your speed there...

As much as I am (frequently) upset by folks ignoring priority rules, I have to remain objective by taking into account that not only I might once fail in reacting accordingly, but others will do so... and as experience shows, folks frequently fail more regular then I feel comfortable with...
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Re: Too fast to be seen?

Postby Pieter Huizinga » 12 Oct 2014, 17:04

My father used to say: Drive like everyone else on the road is stark raving mad.
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